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Do you think the argument is valid?

I ran across this on Facebook and I agree, if there are laws in place for the mishandling of firearms why do we need further gun controls. If laws are in place to enforce illegal use of a gun what else is there to discuss? Safety is always an issue and I feel safer legally armed. How about you?

Murder is illegal.

Attempting murder is illegal.

A felon owning a gun is illegal.

Shooting people indiscriminately is illegal.

Using firearms in a criminal manner is illegal.

Criminals do not go through background checks when purchasing illegal guns.

Explain how criminals will follow new laws.

Explain how new laws will make us safer.

Explain how restricting law-abiding citizens even more will make us safer.

Oh, you can't? Then your argument is invalid.

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Comments

  • Exactly. Law abiding citizens shouldn't suffer because of others. We should keep our right to protect ourselves.
    Thanked by 1CherylTorrie
  • Posts: 234
    I agree,if they would just enforce the laws we have would make a big difference with criminals.The only thing they want to do is plea bargain,and reduce sentences to make room for more ,it is just a revolving door justice.There is way to many repeat offenders and lack of respect for the laws.
    Thanked by 1CherylTorrie
  • I think that calling their argument invalid is kind of harsh.  Many people have been victims of gun violence themselves.  They are just desperate for it to stop.  However, I agree that law-abiding citizens are the only ones who will abide by the laws, and they are already using their guns properly.  The ones we have to watch out for are criminals (who will attack those they think are easy marks; this includes unarmed people) and idiots who have had too much to drink or are just plain stupid and mishandle guns.  I think that the only further steps that should be taken as far as gun control are making sure people who buy guns are educated in handling them (could be through courses or a family member) and background checks.  I can't really say they should be more extensive because I've never had one done.  I have never owned a gun.
  • Posts: 234
    Alright just some of there arguments are invalid,some I would even go along with if that is all they wanted.There is a lot that think we are criminals because we have guns,and some how that it makes them more law abiding and better because they don't have guns.I have done a lot of research and been to many other forms sense I started this fight for my rights and have meant all kinds,some of the minor league anti's are caring people that want to honestly help make it better,and then you have your ridiculous ones on both sides that there is just no reasoning with.
    TommiGunn31
  • Yep.  Every side of every argument has its extremists.  I hate people that you can't reason with because logic doesn't matter to them.  You can't solve a problem if you bury your head in the sand. 
  • Posts: 234
    This is what we are faced with today, it is all or nothing attitudes from both sides.I am open to all common sense solutions,that will help and not harm.
  • Maybe we should direct some of our enthusiasm towards crime and punishment and less to gun laws. As a nation we spend a lot of time creating new laws and placing more and more restrictions on the general population. What if minimum sentences were utilized for gun related crimes and strictly enforced with no exception, no time off for good behavior. Like a get tough campaign. What if we never allowed people convicted of gun related crimes three strikes before we made them serve their full sentences?
    TommiGunn31
  • Posts: 234
    If someone murders in cold blood some one or rapes why do they get three chances before finally getting what they should have got in the first place,What kind of example are we setting for criminals,or society at that matter.Society has got soft on criminals and some how feel sorry for them,I haven't had a easy life either but I never turned to crime,because I was raised with scruples and new there was consequences to your actions,you know the old saying don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time that should be true today too.Then they want to cut cost with the mental health programs and wonder why we have a increase in troubles with the mentally ill,what did they think they would get better on their own.Less of something is not the answer always,and ignoring something doesn't make it go away,just like false blames don't change the real problems.
    TommiGunn31
  • Well said, rbower and CherylTorrie.  I think that the three strike rule is life in prison, though.  I don't think it's that you serve out the sentence for whatever crime.  I think that it's something like, if you go in for robbery, serve your sentence, then get out and shoot someone (without killing them) and serve your sentence, then you get out again.  If you commit a third crime (ANY third crime) you are in jail for life.  I don't think it's specifically for murderers.  I think it's for any felony. 
  • I completely agree with this post.  Criminals will continue to come into possession of weapons, while gun bans disallow the average person from acquiring the means to protect themselves.  You can see this happen when there are shootings in "gun-free" areas like college campuses.  Because the students and staff are not allowed a concealed weapon, they are left helpless.  Guns absolutely should not be banned for this reason alone. Prohibition of guns would just push them underground where they would remain in the hands of criminals.
  • Posts: 234
    I think you are right on that Tommigun.What I was saying though is if you commit murder or rape,should not get another chance you should get life already,to me if you destroy someones life,your right of freedom should be gone.I know many don't agree but I personally believe in the death sentence,why pay for keeping them alive for live,their victims did not have that chance.
    TommiGunn31
  • @rbower80 I share your sentiments on the issue. Sometimes a murder will happen that the case can be treated as given a number of years in prison as it was not necessarily premeditated. Just a bad situation that went wrong. But some murderers go to jail, come back and kill again, thus giving up their right to life. These murders also tend to happen in very brutal ways leaving families of the victims in never-ending grief. What about laws against these acts in society? I believe if the laws on the books are enforced illegal gun usage will also start being curbed.
  • I'm okay with the death penalty, rbower, I just think that there should be no doubt.  My only problem with it are the cases where innocent people have lost their lives to the death penalty.  I have no remorse for those who intentionally kill.  However, there have been a few cases where it turned out that the person executed for the crime were not guilty.  I know that they don't happen often, but that's of little consolation to those who have lost them.

  • Posts: 234
    Unfortunately it does happen sometimes nothing is perfect, sometimes they are more interested in closing a case then getting the truth.I think it is like anything else though we can't can't judge the whole by a few, this happens way to often.If we don't send a message to the criminals though the law will never earn the respect it should have.I think making the laws we have mean more is better then making a bunch of silly new ones that won'"t serve us any good.
    TommiGunn31
  • I agree with that.  I'm just saying that the law has a long way to go on all sides before we can make a near-flawless death penalty system.  Honestly, I think of it in terms of those closest to me.  I think of everything that way.  It's easy to say "give up the few for the many" as long as "the few" are one of them.  I worry about my husband and my daughter.  What if either of them were "the few"?  What if I lost my child because she was wrongfully accused of a crime and sent to her death when she did nothing wrong?  It's as likely as anyone else who is wrongfully accused.  The victims are just the ones who died from the original murder then.  It's also the one is killed unjustly, the families who lose the wrongfully accused, and the future victims from the man or woman who should have been on death row. 
  • Posts: 21
    I'm sorry but I am not comfortable even touching a gun so how am I suppose to use one to defend myself?  Believe it or not there are people just like me out there, and yet everyone seems to be of the belief that we fight violence by arming ourselves well for some of us that isn't an option.  Now I am not someone who says ban guns and I also don't live with my head buried in the sand I know the violence out there, but we can't go around looking for trouble ourselves.  This is how I feel about the whole carry a weapon around with you.  Yes, it might give some of us a sense of security but if it came down to it could you really use the gun, that is the question I have?
    TommiGunn31DoctorWho
  • Posts: 234
    I think survival is a instinct we all have and it depends on what value you put on your own life and the ones you love. I assure you that I value mine and my loved ones lives and could do what I had to, to protect them. When a criminal threatens your life he has already decided your life is not worth much to them, so I would think that should make your decision easier. I am sorry if that sounds harsh but I can't put a criminals life above mine or my loved ones. I feel for the ones that don't feel that way, but it is a individual decision. Like I have said before if you don't think your worth fighting for why should someone else, I know how long it takes for the police to arrive, so I am not betting my life on them to get there in time. To answer your question clear yes I could, maybe not easily but yes.I have a question for you, what is your life worth?
  • Posts: 49
    What threat is ANY firearm in the hands of a responsible, law-abiding citizen?

    Why is it that you trust cops and military with firearms, but once the uniform comes off all of the sudden those same people cannot be trusted?

    Free people are considered sane, responsible and law-abiding until their ACTIONS prove otherwise.  Gun control and other prior restraint laws are supported by people who consider their fellow citizens to be potential criminals, terrorists or nut jobs until government certifies them otherwise.  It's called totalitarianism.  
    TommiGunn31
  • Posts: 49
    If you don't want to own or use a firearm, nobody is forcing you and I respect your wishes.  I would hope that you would respect my right to own and use firearms...especially since my training in their use may save your life or that of one of your loved ones one day.  

    Why is it that you trusted me when I was in the Marine Corps, or while on the police department, but now that I have become a civilian I am automagically untrustworthy and unqualified?  
    TommiGunn31
  • Posts: 234
    I think your right, it just seems today if you are a law abiding citizen you are guilty until proven innocent. If your a criminal then your innocent until proven guilty, I don't understand why so many view people this way nowadays. I have not done anything criminal my whole life except for a traffic ticket and it has been 35 years sense I got one of them, but yet I have to try and prove I should have the right to defend me and my family. What has heppened to this country.
  • I know what has happened.  People have lost their minds.  Therapy is stigmatized, so instead of getting help for their problems, kids pick up  a gun.  Most laws are not equipped to handle a bad situation.  It's not always guilty until proven innocent.  I had a stalker.  He followed me from work to my home every night.  The police did nothing because I didn't have any "proof".  I told them that I saw him.  He even told me his name because he thought we were in a relationship, since he "walked me home every night."  He told me he wanted to protect me because my convenience store job was so dangerous.  He knew where I lived.  I survived on two hours of sleep because I was afraid to close my eyes.  The worst part, my boss knew about him and still hired him to work the shift right after mine.


  • Posts: 234
    I find that just sick Tommigun, but unfortunate it does happen to often.There are more laws that protect the bad then the good, a lot of times it seems they have more rights then the innocent. I am happy you are a surviver and can still think with a clear head.The laws we have do need a lot of work but nonsense gun control is not one of them. I think many are scared to seek help because they are afraid of what others might think, and some the help just isn't available because of cost and the number of quacks we have that just wants to push pills.
  • I agree.  People need fixing not gun control laws.  I'm perfectly content with a background check and then selling people guns.  What more can be done?
  • Posts: 234
    What I just found out is that Obama without approval from congress passed a new background check law through what is called a executive order that medical field will be required to report to the government the medical and mental heath of people disreguarding the Hippa act to be added to the NICS background check report.That the government will have the chance to decide whether someone should have a gun or not and legally confiscate there guns if they think it is needed.This includes if you see a doctor for depression or if medicated for anything they feel is a reason,it will not be based on a doctors recommendation but just what government thinks.This is what many were afraid of with a stricter background check that it would give the power to the government to do what they want and start confiscating guns.I don't know how far this will go because the way he did it was illegal according to many.
  • While it's not feasible to expect that all gun violence will suddenly come to a halt, restricting access to guns is the first step in reducing the amount of gun violence. With less guns available overall, criminals will have a much harder time purchasing guns, especially if background checks are expanded and punishments for illegally selling and possessing guns are made more severe. Of course this issue is a regional issue to some degree, as gun control laws in rural areas would have to be less strict than in urban areas in order to be considerate of the constituents in that region. People who are using guns for hunting purposes certainly seem to be less of the issue rather than the rampant urban gun violence we are currently seeing today.
  • I don't see how he was able to pass a law without Congress' approval.  I will have to check this out.  This seems like a rumor.  The whole purpose of Congress is to limit the president's power so that we don't have a totalitarian state on our hands. 
  • There are some states where you can literally just walk right into a store, and purchase a gun with no license, no identification, nothing. I don't think this is about taking guns away from everyone. I think this is about making them harder to get. 
    It's true, criminals aren't going to follow laws. They usually don't. But that doesn't mean it doesn't make it harder for them. Now all these people that are selling guns unregistered, have to pass background checks themselves, just to sell to people that want it. In turn, they'd probably increase the cost, due to the demand and accessibility. That in itself can help a lot with keeping the wrong people from obtaining a firearm, not including getting around the background check in general.
    I personally am not for gun control. But I understand the reasoning behind what they are trying to do. 
  • I agree.  It does make it harder, but most of the time, the people who are selling guns illegally are getting them from overseas.  Some countries sell guns cheaper.  The arms dealers buy them and jack up the cost for the ones who can't buy them here or who may want hard-to-trace or completely untraceable guns.  The problem there is that people who want to buy guns will pay the extra price.  It is kind of hard to find arms dealers, though, so that makes it harder.  I am for gun control, I'm just not for taking them away completely.  I don't use them, but I know plenty of responsible people who do.
  • I completely agree with you. Pardon my question, but I don't know the specifics myself of this(I don't own my own gun, personally, and haven't really thought much on acquiring one). But how do they get it oversees? Online? Isn't that a lot of what they're trying to do, make it harder to get from online businesses? I know there are a lot of oversees sites they could go to, but those usually use different domain types. Not that they couldn't find it, but also another small hurdle for it

  • "pafjlh
    November 2015 Posts: 21Thanks
    I'm sorry but I am not comfortable even touching a gun so how am I suppose to use one to defend myself? Believe it or not there are people just like me out there, and yet everyone seems to be of the belief that we fight violence by arming ourselves well for some of us that isn't an option. Now I am not someone who says ban guns and I also don't live with my head buried in the sand I know the violence out there, but we can't go around looking for trouble ourselves. This is how I feel about the whole carry a weapon around with you. Yes, it might give some of us a sense of security but if it came down to it could you really use the gun, that is the question I have?"

    I respect you and you have a valid point, however, many people start off afraid of guns, before firing one for the first time, I was afraid of guns the first time, and still a healthy fear of what a gun can do is a good attitude toward maintaining safe gun handling.

    I recommend you go shooting with a certified Instructor one time, with a .22 LR Rifle to get acquainted with firearms and to see how you feel about shooting, once you experience shooting safely few times, you may see it is not so bad, or you May not like it at all, give it a chance, owning a gun is not an all at once deal, in some store States it can take months to get a license to buy and own a gun.

    Take time to learn about guns.
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